Reconquista

   

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Comments

[Moze]

Last night I wrote a lengthy comment about the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (the Treaty that ended the Mexcan-American War (1846-1848)), the spoils of war, and whether the idea of strengthening the peoples of the North America continent economically is a good idea. I realized my comment could be construed as beating on the toes of every politically sensitive immigration question with a sledge hammer, so I didn't click 'Post'...

[Phoenix]

Not sure why not strengthening the people of the North American continent is a good idea. I am assuming you mean Mexico, America, and Canada?

It seems to me allowing for uncontrolled immigration defeats every argument out there. It's fine to say we need the workers. We do. But for every dollar they bring to their employers, they take three dollars out of the government coffers.

Let them come work, but leave their families behind. This is nuts. Just nuts.

[Moze]

[Not sure why not strengthening the people of the North American continent is a good idea...]

China. 20% economic growth. 1.3 Billion citizens.

[It seems to me allowing for uncontrolled immigration defeats every argument out there.]

Any lawmaker who confuses border control with any of the political-bed-making going on in Congress right now is dumber than a mud fence.

Go to the service counter of any grocery store in Colorado and you'll wait while at least one Mexican national wires the majority of his/her paycheck to Mexico.

Reconquista? That horse is already out of the barn. There's a strip mall in a town I used to live in twelve miles south of here, right next to one of the oldest Coops on the Western Slope. That mall used to have a shop where you could buy party supplies for almost any occasion. Now, to a one, every store is run by migrants. All the windows are papered over with flyers, and there's a grocery with a meat counter that would put a troubled look on a buzzard... When I walked through the doors of that grocery, all conversation stopped.

My children will speak Spanish fluently.

Cheers,

[Phoenix]

Not sure I get the China connection. It's just taken them this long to do what we did fifty years ago. They're getting ready to have a civil war as the gap between rich and poor widens. And it will be really ugly. But, anyway, I'm still not sure of your premise there.

Yes to the waiting in line behind Mexicans wiring money home. Nice. Even in my elitist little town it's happening. I stand there and think - 'oh, how nice that they're helping out their families by working hard and doing awful work that we won't do'. Then I think in the next breath - 'Shit... spend that money here you dusty looking aliens!'

On the other end of the spectrum, there are the rich and effete from Asian countries who send their sons and daughters here to our universities. They get the best education and say sayonara and go back home and pass us in the flatlands of science, biology, and technology. Why? Because we have too many twerps defining the ethics of those sciences in terms of morals.

America the stupid.

god, I sound like Pat Buchanan. I KNOW we are all global now and I like it. But we are being left behind while dusty people pick peaches for us. Yehaw...

[lori]

"dumber than a mud fence" hahaha What a fantastic metaphor :)! Where do you come up with these, Moze? I so love reading your comments.

"Now, to a one, every store is run by migrants" We were shocked when we drove thru that town for the first time in over 10 years. I honestly wouldn't have recognized our old house if someone hadn't pointed it out to me. The entire town seemed to populated w/ Hispanics.

The town of Monroe, NC, which is a few miles down the road from us now, has the fastest growing Hispanic population in NC. My dad works for a car dealership as a gopher...He makes trips to the DMV daily, and according to him, every DMV in the Charlotte metro area (there are about 6 of them) has mostly Hispanics in line, on a daily basis. I'm wondering how they can get drivers licenses, tags, whatever, if they are illegal. But maybe most of them in this area are legal?

"My children will speak Spanish fluently" How do you feel about this? Do you think it will be a necessity in any job/career, or even in everyday life? My (very young) s-i-l has a Master's degree in Spanish...she does freelance translating and tutors college kids. Right now she can basically name her price in any job offer she gets. I find it bizarre that just knowing Spanish allows you to almost write your own paycheck in the everyday US business world, while kids w/ degrees in engineering and IT seem to be making less than ever in entry-level positions.

It's hard not to be prejudiced and bitter over this issue, when it seems that your own culture and roots are being knocked out from under you.

[Moze]

[It's hard not to be prejudiced and bitter over this issue, when it seems that your own culture and roots are being knocked out from under you.]

That's the great thing about being an American... your culture and roots are at best two-hundred and twenty-five years old, and for most of us, less than that. That said, my American identity is no less profound than a Mexican who wants to reclaim Aztlan.

I'm not the oldest SOB ready to die for the USA.

My children will learn Spanish because to do otherwise would be folly... Besides, knowing how to speak more than one language opens your mind.

Cuándo arreglan mi cuarto, no encuentro nada...

Cheers,

[Phoenix]

One of the first questions a potential employer asks of an interviewee is: "Do you speak a foreign language? Spanish???" It's the ticket in. Even better - Arabic. If you can speak that, you can pick your job, pick your salary, and pick just about anything else you want.

English is the 'universal language', but that doesn't mean everyone speaks it, so it behooves anyone who dreams of making it to learn a foreign language.

As for 'opening minds' - you're absolutely right. There is nothing that does it better than learning another language. Except maybe learning how to immerse yourself in objective reality.

[lori]

>Besides, knowing how to speak more than one language opens your mind.<
Moze,
Et tu, Brute? Maybe I'm being a little thin-skinned, but are you implying I don't have an open mind :-)?

>As for 'opening minds' - you're absolutely right. There is nothing that does it better than learning another language. Except maybe learning how to immerse yourself in objective reality.<

Phoenix,
That's exactly what I was thinking, but in a more concrete version. Perhaps it was the type of instruction I received from a lowly Ag college in SC, but somehow, for me, four years of translating Kafka, Nietsche, and "Mein Kampf" didn't open my mind nearly as much going on a youth mission trip to inner-city Chicago, working w/ Habitat for Humanity, taking my kids and working w/ Meals on Wheels, or counseling in a Crisis Pregnancy Center. Then again, I never had the financial means to do the summer in Europe, or to "immerse" myself in the language. In a small-town southern high school, French classes didn't do much for broadening my horizons, either.

I think the first real mind-opening experience in my life was taking an "African American History" class my jr. year in college. I was one of two whites in a class of about 50 black students. The professor, who was an incredible lecturer, was also black. In one semester, I gained more insight into what it must be like to be anything other than WASP, than in my entire life before that.

I think we talked about "I am Charlotte Simmons" earlier...maybe I was a little like her...I lived in the same small town my whole life before going to college. Even though I didn't go far from home, it was a real culture shock for me, and opened vistas I would never have encountered had I chosen to stay at home for college. After graduating, I never looked back, and have since been fortunate to live in many different places and meet many different types of people.

>That said, my American identity is no less profound than a Mexican who wants to reclaim Aztlan.<
I wasn't necessarily referring to my own sentiments regarding prejudice and bitterness...I was thinking more of our parents' generation. While I don't exactly embrace their values and opinions regarding immigration, I can empathize w/ the misguided notion of being "overtaken" by "foreigners". My dad is a wonderful, loving person, but it's way out his comfort zone to be fully tolerant of cultural and racial differences. He is white, male, and Southern, and old habits die hard. While that's wrong, and I don't agree w/ many of his beliefs in that area, I can understand how he may feel that his "space" has been invaded in ways that are difficult for him to accept or embrace.

>My children will learn Spanish because to do otherwise would be folly<
Would it be folly because it will be necessary in the working world, or because it will be necessary in everyday life? If it's the latter, I guess that's where I have a problem.

I am fully aware that English is NOT the universal language; however, it IS (or was?) our nation's primary language. I completely agree that learning a foreign language is key in a well-rounded education...but to learn Spanish as a necessity arouses a bit of dissonance w/ my personal educational philosophy.

Because she loves all things Asian, Elise is learning Japanese from my s-i-l (not the one w/ the Spanish degree), who's native Japanese. She's also learning a little Latin, and French in school. She doesn't really enjoy Spanish...she's had it in prior years (just the basic stuff they teach in elementary school)but hasn't pursued it in the last year. My in-laws are extremely concerned that she's not continuing to take Spanish right now. They're concerned it will affect her ability to get into college, etc.

I'm just wondering if you would further explain your comment that it would be "folly" to not do so.

Thanks...and sorry to get off on a tangent again.

[Phoenix]

Here's the philosophical definition of "Objective Reality":

The person who can perceive of it is extremely rare. The rest of us live in a world composed of individual realities, often our own personal ones. And the greater the extent to which they dominate our intellect, the poorer thinker we are.

English is the universal language. There is not a commercial pilot in the sky who does not know it. There are fifty times as many foreigners who know English as there are Americans who know a second language. If your objection is that English is not the language of, say, Albania, yes, fine. But any foreigner who learns a second language learns English.

[lori]

>If your objection is that English is not the language of, say, Albania, yes, fine. But any foreigner who learns a second language learns English.<
I think I mis-spoke in trying to make my point. You are right that it is the universal language. Actually, acknowledging that may further drive home my point? Moze and I were having somewhat of a disagreement here, but I think he has opened my eyes.